A Trader’s Guide to Hedging Strategies – Part III

Between now and the FOMC announcement due at 2:15 EST, action will likely slow to a cat crawl. What do you say we put on the polyester woot suit and discuss more on the subject of hedging?!

Oh yeah…

By Michael Davey

Hedging Exposure (when, why and a little on how)

We’re up to Part III now, which means we’ll really be getting down to business, right? I’m picturing algebraic formulas, flawless graphics and a glow in the dark game-plan we can velcro to our wrist.

That was the idea, but once again I’m looking at a draft which rambles-on esoterically, sometimes off-topic and without instructional diagrams.

What do you want for less than a cup of coffee? Hopefully this will teach more.

As already stated, I’m not the best candidate for illustrating the array of methods for hedging-off exposure. Using options, for instance, is a viable strategy, but I personally don’t trade options except for speculation (and a bit rarely at that; wanting to use options more for anticipating a big change in direction when premium is historically cheap). But again I am willing to (attempt to) convey how I go about this personally (lucky you!).

For better of for worse (in case you didn’t notice), I’m a market timer. When pros come on TV and say no one can time the market, they are talking about chumps like me. I use a variety of technical and fundamental criteria and at the end of the day I am going to push harder or softer, long or short, based on my interpretation of the current environment and an assessment of near-term/intermediate-term opportunity. I work on that interpretation continuously as the market trades, doing my best to recognize developing counter-trends (minor or major), and whether or not and how much to adjust, whether or not and how much to hedge, etc.  I know from those same pros that a nice chunk of historical performance comes within a very short degree of time (that the majority of a market’s advance, or plummet, is contained within a relatively small number of trading days. I am especially keen then to position aggressively and in-line with direction of these significant market triumphs (or failures).

I want to know how to anticipate a major turn in the market, since some of the biggest one-day moves stem from such a shift, but that doesn’t mean I need to fully adjust before price-action actually confirms a change in trend. My tendency historically, like a lot of traders  here perhaps, has tended toward arriving early to a trend-change party, as opposed to coming late. For this reason I try to discount, check and adjust this tendency and force myself to turn a little later, or at least hang out in market neutral-territory or out of the market altogether; depending.

The older I get, the less what I think makes any impression on me. I want to be the great reactor; especially in volatile times. Predicting in rocky times is for suckers and masochists.

If I am trading a market long and there are a multitude of strong charts (healthy leadership), an upward trend in advancing stocks vs. those declining (A/D-line) , a rising number of new 52-week highs, etc., I will look to press that trend regardless of my views on the economy, or any economic indicators informing the pros in my field. I don’t mind negative news, especially if the market is digesting it well and advancing in the face of it (quite like that set-up in fact). I will begin to slow down, however, when negative signs begin to appear and I will either neutralize, hedge-off, or exit the market altogether when these signs begin increasing.

Some of these disturbing signs include: evidence of major distribution; a breakdown of leadership; a lack of bullish stock charts; back-of-the-roller-coaster industry groups begin leading in terms of relative strength (RS), such as oils and other cyclicals, while at the same time financials and technology groups begin to lag; excessive bullishness relative to action (excessive bullishness in and of itself is only a cautionary sign, whereas rampant bullish contagion coincident with no price advance is a major red flag and will force me to adjust); rapidly rising interest rates (rates will always rise in the market ahead of the Fed increasing fed funds rates; follow market rates if you want to follow the Fed, since that what the Fed follows).

I don’t like shorting something simply because it appears too high, or buying when something appears low, attempting to prosper from a re-trace. I prefer placing bets on the more powerful force, or no bets at all – and while I may anticipate a counter move and reduce exposure for that reason, I’m almost never interested to play the smaller counter-wave. Somebody taught me a long time ago that if the zigs in one direction are greater than the countering zags, then focus on the zigs.

This flies in the face of our natural, comfort-seeking subjective tendencies, and is pretty much the reason why most traders are profiting only marginally, if at all.

I should discuss this in detail, since I see the mistake of attacking high-fliers made year in and year out (shorting for the zag instead of buying the larger zig; or simply leaving well enough alone which is a safe-enough alternative. PCLN and AMZN this year are a couple of examples. Oddly, a stock like GS was quite a popular short earlier in the year, when the trend was unrelentingly powerful, but I seldom see anyone attacking GS today (now that the name has been trending downward). We’ve got to detach our subjective ideas of where we feel a stock belongs. The market is a measure of supply and demand and everyone in this game knows that prices exceed reality on a routine basis (sometimes going further up or down than anyone in the crowd could predict). Why then fight something acting ridiculous when it is only apt to act even more ridiculous?

Doh!

If you were happy to short GS above 150 in July (when it was showing terrific power on the way to 193), then why are you not excited to short GS above 160 now (when it has been diverging negatively for a couple of months)?

I prefer to measure the underlying power behind a move. If it demonstrates real power, then I don’t apply any gauges of reality whatsoever. I might target where I think exit points might be best, in terms of trading, but I’m certainly not shorting something acting powerful just because it hit somebody’s idea of a target, or it loses touch with reality. Who needs reality anyway?

Here is a good example illustrating why we need to train ourselves against such tendencies. In the late 90’s YHOO was considered as overpriced a stock as has ever been seen. The stock ran (pre-split) from below 15 to above 80 in about a year and a half; and there has never been a stock so powerful which was so universally loathed. YHOO was literally laughed at by market pros and the public wasn’t going for such foolishness either (not yet). It was fools and fools alone who were buying YHOO above $80. Not everyone was shorting the name, but I know of many who did and were decimated for it; a real career changer. But to a man on Wall Street – YHOO was ridiculously overvalued.

Nobody questioned this. The fact that it had been under 10 or so was all the proof needed that YHOO (and all the internet names at that point) had gotten out of touch with reality.

All of this is meaningless and nonsense of course, especially when the clear perception out there is so universally negative AND a stock still acts only like a monster. And that last part is very significant. If no one else is going to ask the sexiest girl to dance, because she is too sexy I suppose; then from my experience it’s worth grabbing that tiger by the tail and running with it. By measuring the power of a move instead of anything practical, YHOO was merely a monster; nothing less. The fact that skepticism surrounded the giant move, and the stock was very liquid to boot – then let’s just say you don’t want to be shorting such a beast. You want to get in the pants of a name like that. Let the other losers play it safe.

Maybe you were there, but it is unbelievable what happened (in other words it makes perfect sense, which is why I love this game so much). YHOO punished anything and everything in its path as it only accelerated from there. Within another few months the stock traded above $200 and then, on news it would be added to the S&P 500 (ding ding ding) it lit the roman candle and launched to just under $250/share ($125 split-adjusted).

That was the all-time, all-time high in YHOO. A classic Prussian Helmut top; the likes of which should be understood like the back of your heaviest frying-pan hand (since that formation is going to hit you with about the same affect, once it develops).

And predictably, here is the scary (beautiful) thing. Recall that YHOO was universally loathed at $80. Well, that was because folks looked at it like it was a $10 or $15 stock. So what do you think happens to YHOO now, on the way down down down from the insane height of 250?

I’ll wait for you to guess.

Exactly. It became “oversold,” “relatively cheap” and “undervalued” at $180. This is the truth – the same subjective attitudes which held players back at $80 now somehow provided comfort to go ahead and pick up a bargain at 180, 150, 120, 90, 50, etc., etc., yikes, etc.

Dimwits?

So, I’m not saying that GS is in the midst of a round-trip back to $50, but it is interesting that I don’t see people discussing GS shorts on the boards anymore. AMZN right now is somehow more comfortable to people looking to short; apparently.

We’re talking about momentum trading, which gets a rather bad rap (thankfully!) from time to time. The thing is though, if a market is trending and volatility is sufficiently high (let’s say the VIX is >15, to keep it simple), then being on the right side of a momentum move is going to blow the random walk pros out their narrow little windows. You cannot randomly run a stock from 10 to 250 and then back to 10 again – there is something much bigger going on; something valuable perhaps!

Easy game then, perhaps. If you have real volatility and a real trend, then you have a market which can make you money.

Now, some of you might point out that both trend and volatility are a bit suspect in the present environment right now and you are correct. What better time for us to talk about it then? None better for me, actually. I don’t have the energy to talk theory when stuff is really flying. But there is much, much worse, trust me. This market is a little tough right now, but not impossible.

Now perhaps you begin to see I can only present my own method. I’m not as smart as the rest of the crowd writing about this (that’s by design, since smart was not buying going-up at YHOO at $80). Anyway, if I have a strong trend and volatility is good, how can I maximize that move without risking the frying pan to my head?

Buy the Beast and Short the Sick

That’s all I do. How much do I buy (in an uptrend), how much do I short (in a downtrend) and how much do I hedge (in both cases) depends on many many things (things I can’t necessarily teach; not now anyway). But suffice to say, the main element to protecting one’s position is to make sure you’re selling weakness and buying strength (remember, you need a strong trend – otherwise you are getting whipsawed by chasing, but if you have a strong trend I’ll argue you will do best by attacking strength long and skewering sickness short).

How much one varies exposure depends on the power of the move. If the market is partying like it’s 1999, you don’t need to hedge that tiger. Pick your entry spots and hold on; falling out of bed is harder than a 200% year. If it’s summer 1987, you should be finding your hedge becoming more and more dominant until at some point you are more short than long and the longs begin to act as the hedge. This is a rational, normal, madman approach to the markets as far as I’m concerned. How one goes about it has everything to do with style, but the basics in profiting from strong moves in the market have a similar foundation.

I save myself a lot of trouble by exiting stocks from industry groups slipping in relative strength (RS). I have not lived enough lifetimes for a proper data sample, but I can tell you with real anecdotal authority that I wake up to fewer names blowing up (due to surprise-negative news) by stepping out of groups which are declining markedly in RS. And while shorting the already-worst industry groups is not always the best strategy, identifying the new-worst industry groups is a must for educated shorting.

That’s a lot different than shorting the highest fliers.

The market is about supply and demand and large institutions have to move a lot of money around (often for very good reasons). Keep an eye on this rotation (week-to-week if not day-to-day; I’m watching hour-to-hour, but I’m a bit of a freak). It will pinpoint new leadership and it will save you from oncoming disasters. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of disasters breakdown in RS before the real drama with price begins. Unfortunately, every breakdown in RS does not equate to looming disaster, but that doesn’t mean you wouldn’t prefer to avoid such a potential risk, right? It’s better to exit something with a full head on your shoulders and miss an opportunity for gain than it is to end up with your head on a stick.

So we see that it may be more conservative to jump onto an out of control long going up, as long as it is going up, than it is to buy something trending lower. Thus, not only are you kicking the ass of your peers, because they are too timid to ride such a volatile beast, but they are more apt to define the better shorts at the same time (since those laggard lovelies they glom onto are demonstrating deteriorating demand vs. supply; why do I want to waste away in something like that?).

I’m pretty sure we didn’t talk much about how to go about hedging again here, but maybe its better like this. When the book comes out I’ll have to edit this section dramatically and import much of this speech elsewhere. Anyhow, I’ll look to try one more time with Part IV; magic markers and baby food formulas in hand; perhaps. In the meantime I’m hoping this is somehow useful. It is to me at least.

Don’t be overly reasonable. Reasonable is a of a heart-breaker in this business.

Homework: Transform yourself as more objective. Stop attaching what you think is normal to anything that has to do with the markets. Normal is changing every day around here, don’t tie yourself to a tree.

Previously in this series:
A Trader’s Guide to Hedging Strategies – Part II
A Trader’s Guide to Hedging Strategies – Part 1
A Trader’s Guide to Contractions
A Trader’s Guide to Sipping Kool Aid
Losing Like a Winner: A Trader’s Guide
A Trader’s Guide to Secondary Offerings (Part 2)
A Trader’s Guide to Secondary Offerings (Part 1)
A Trader’s Guide (Introduction)
A Trader’s Guide to Chasing Ambulances
A Trader’s Guide to Exhaustion

Mole here – I just wanted to tack on the long DXY odds for you guys:

We’ve got ourselves a whole cluster of support here – I chose 76.1 as the 100% mark.

Mr. Bucky has held at 76.55 near the long 76.43 RL. If it breaks through 76.1 then I think 75.6 is the next line of defense.

As usual the DXY odds calculator is brought to you by retracementlevels.com – swing over there to familiarize yourself with a diversity of valuable odds calcs for futures, currencies, equities, indexes, etc. These types of statistical tools are usually only available to institutional traders and you owe it to yourself to learn how to gauge your odds before placing a trade.

CD here – looking to regain the last word

This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 16th, 2009 at 2:33 pm and is filed under Currencies, Retracement Levels, Trading Psychology. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

  • Offtimer
    Ben may be Man of the Year for Time Magazine, but a call-in telepone poll in Chicago at WGN today says 85% were not in favor of him being chosen. If this is any sentiment indication of what the people think, his days are numbered and the Senate will not approve him for a second term. Black Swan Thursday???
  • ¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨
    ¨°º¤ø„¸ N E W „ø¤º°¨
    ¸„ø¤º°¨ P O S T ``°º¤ø„¸
    ¸„ø¤º°¨¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°º¤ø„¸
  • Offtimer
    Interesting post on investing.
  • Jan
    Snooping around for news. Apollo buys FUN.....

    http://tinyurl.com/yjfqpq2
  • Scoops
    I wonder if those UUP December 23's are going to expire ITM. I dumped mine for a nickel and took the .15 loss the other day. meh....

    Market looked so tired today. Like a terminally ill patient. Bears have been beaten to death, and don't have the margin to short even if they wanted to. Right now just a game of musical shares between the computers. All of this talk about a ramp job into your mid term elections is a load. We all know there is only one political system and the people in charge simply bounce back and forth between Dems and Rep. So I see no logical reason why the market is going to continue up to higher levels from here, and that is why I loaded up on OTM puts today, and I will buy more after the holidays when the situation dictates. Where is the explosion of volume and breadth going to come from to take us to the moon? This has been one giant Bernanke induced orgy combined with a monster short covering rally that is so close to unwinding I can taste it. Thanks to Time magazine for another job well done, and thank you for driving down the vix and letting those with powder dry load up on the cheap. My day trading is done for the year, and I'm going to go in joy myself, just like I did yesterday taking the better half to size on her new boobies. I tell ya my face lit up like a fucking Christmas tree when she pulled that news on me. I can't wait for Tuesday. Just may ease the pain a little if the Pandit says we're all profitable again.
  • "Bears have been beaten to death, and don't have the margin to short even if they wanted to."

    Remember my 'kaputt-u-lated' post? Exactly my point.

    C-cups? Don't let her overdo it - it's got to look proportional.
  • Scoops
    375 mils. It looks nicely proportional. Def. want to avoid the book shelf look.
  • Gold_Gerb
    it's late, the kiddies have gone to bed.
    just like cars - "your mileage may vary"
    NSFW
    http://www.paulkienitz.net/no-implants.html
  • holy crap dxy just launched up hard
    77.42
  • bananaben
    No shit. Many expect a carry trade unwind if it can hold above 7750. Also this from Weiss Research:

    Major market action likely January 4!
    What to do now ...

    In less than three weeks, you're going to see one of the best profit opportunities you've seen in many months — or are likely to see for many more months to come. Allow me to explain ...
    It's no secret that investors have racked up millions of dollars in paper profits this year. The average S&P 500 stock has risen 66% since March alone.
    Now, large hedge funds, mutual funds, pensions and wealthy investors need to take some of those profits off of the table to tidy up their balance sheets.
    But there's a problem:
    Those who take their profits before December 31 will get a big tax bill on April 15, 2010, while ...


    Those who WAIT until the first trading day of the new year won't have to pay taxes on their profits for 15 long months — until April 15, 2011!
    That means you can expect to see many of the world's largest institutions selling some of their shares on the very first trading day of the new year.
  • See - that's why we keep you around, bananaben.
  • Yeah baby yeah!!!
  • yudhisthira
  • marketmaker
    Don't have much to add.

    I just wanted to thank PRSGuitars for his 133 extension elucidation.

    Very, very cool, dude.

    For those who missed it, this is how you do it:

    "draw a channel and right click on it --

    the menu that comes up, near the top, select 'edit properties' --

    in the lower half of the box that appears, click 'add curve' (this means
    'add a line') --

    click on the '0' that appeared for the 'curve' that you just 'added' (the
    new channel line, not 25, 50, nor 75) and type in 1.333 (for a 133.3%
    extension) --

    alternatively, you can type in 1.7689 for a 133 of 133 extension (133*133 =
    1.7689 thus 176.89%) or -0.333 or -0.7689 for the negative (other side of
    channel) 133 and 133 of 133...

    I would recommend changing this line to be a different than standard (red)
    color, so, like, yellow, AND, make it dotted (or something easily
    recognizable) AND uncheck 'hidden' ... very important! haha --

    Then (again just my recommendation) click 'save as default' in the bottom
    left, and click OK... this means you'll have a 133.3% extension on any
    channel you draw, always, so you can see possible targets (VERY useful for
    predictive capabilities, so, good to have it on even when I'm not thinking
    "Oh! possible 133!"...it just appears!) --

    Best of luck."
    ________________

    BTW, make sure you are in charts, NOT prophet.

    Thanks again, PRS!
  • PRSGuitars
    Whoa! Someone listens! (har har har) no seriously, that's awesome that you found it useful.

    Glad to have helped others with this!

    With respect to ProphetCharts, just draw the 'original' channel and duplicate it --

    change the color to something you like for the '133 channel' --

    match the base 0% levels (aka the lower, unbroken line of the 'old' channel and the lower line of the 'new' channel) --

    and then match the 'original channel' 100% level to the 'new channel' 75% level --

    this leaves one line (the 100% line of the 'new channel) sticking up out of the original channel -- this is your 133.3% extension!

    or...

    Generic 133 extension explanation for ProphetCharts

    Part 1 http://screencast.com/t/YzZjNDg4Ym

    Part 2 http://screencast.com/t/YTA3MzZmY
  • what the wise man does at the beginning, fools do in the end
  • 8383
    6E 50% retracement at 1.4439 since largest correction on 6/16
    Also, daily pivots in this area
  • i just cant wait for these market bulls to get skinned alive
  • Your avatar suggests as much ;)
  • Yeah, he's a looker, isn't he?
  • Guest
    Close to a 50% retracement on 6E since the largest correction on 6/16 is 1.4439
    Also daily pivots in this area.
  • Schwerepunkt
    Euro seems to have exactly bounced off Woodies S2@1.4452. That was a steep dive.
  • dxy 77.16
    es only down 0.50
    gold up 4?
  • Schwerepunkt
    Euro diving in last hour. Down almost 70-pips. Asian equities are up, though.
  • Yep, currencies moving and equity futs are not
  • Schwerepunkt
    Euro trying to stabilize. I got an extreme oversold reading on it. RSI 7.66. I don't often watch this stuff at night. Is this usual?

    Edit: Euro going even lower. I have S2 at 1.4452. Now RSI is down to 6.6.
  • how long can this market do this?
  • I don't know. The markets seem to be pricing in short-rates increasing sooner than previously thought (i think it is the june fed funds futs that are now pricing in a 50% chance of a rate increase). I'm hitting the Fosbeck book to freshen up. Let you know if I come up with something.

    I am asking anyone who has data demonstrating a decoupling of currencies and the SPX to come forward with it. I'd like to get the historical precedent (although times are certainly unique)
  • til just before xmas
  • Captain Obvious
    C already trading down to 3.21, what a turd in the punch bowl
  • PRSGuitars
    ES 133 last few days... http://screencast.com/t/YjY0YmFiZW
  • BigHouse(Aka Mr Vix)
    Mole used to have that thing that changed the post into another language. Does anyone know where you can find that?
  • Nightwind
    I highlight the sentence and do a left mouse click on it and then select google translator. If I could only get it to work on the S&P 500, I would be in uno good shape.
  • Nightwind
    Correction...right mouse click
  • SPX:gold going down
    bpspx could use a little love (it's solidly above MA13 but shity slope)

    Hamster view... Gold skyrockets, equities grind up (probably gap and crap but no new low)

    EDIT clarification, gold has a meeting with 1175 as I mentioned some days ago, maybe it's time in a couple of days timeframe
  • Gold_Gerb
    skyrocket!?!?
    weeping, crying, nashing of teeth. never got on the GLD train.
    :-)
  • gerbil I 'm not sure if gold will bounce down from 1175 or 1150's

    And you can get some gold (maybe double long DGP better than UGL)

    start to scale in a bit on 1110, more on 1080 and full on 1040's (do an hamster/gerbil band on gold) and check the values

    but bailout if it breaks the MA104 at 1040


    EDIT if it goes to the BB13 upper let it ride, but raise your stops but cash your coins when it diverges from the upper BB13, this is a w5, crashes as a pig
  • amokta
    Time Magazine - Time Person of the Year for 2009 is Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke
    According to EWI STU these sorts of media sentiments herald a top?
  • this stat has me thinking the upside is not over - let's see if the C news counteracts this

    A strong reaction to the FOMC announcement often leads to a counter-move over the following 1-3 days
  • NEW MOON PLAYBOOK:

    the best way to visualize the effect of the new moon on equities
    is to see ES's relative strength against the dollar.

    here is my proprietary ratio-adjusted ES versus DX chart that i've been trading for months.

    http://screencast.com/t/YTIwZTQ1ODQt
    red arrows indicate new moons
    green arrows indicate full moons

    the indicator has been holding like clockwork
    * if the dollar corrects sharply, then ES can make a marginal high
    * if the dollar fades, ES can also fade
    * if the dollar spikes higher, ES can correct hard
  • Macrawn
    How far back did you back test this? I see only 3 months at a time when the dollar and equities were strongly correlated anyway. The dollar can go up and equities can go up right along side it right now.
  • PRSGuitars
    Nice -- I recall the chart but havent really been watching it much. Can you offer commentary on why this may be the case (the relationship you describe)? I know very little about lunar-based cycles...
  • St. Deluise
    very interesting, thanks
  • you're welcome. time to start looking for swing short entries
  • gsavli
  • PRSGuitars
    ES headfake 133 analysis:

    http://screencast.com/t/YjY0YmFiZW
  • Tronacate
    EURJPY just broke lower out of triangle........es should follow
  • yudhisthira
    Correlation strongest with this pair, I assume.
    Needs to drop a little further.
  • Tronacate
    I forgot where I saw that......but yeah.......saw strong es corr........and yes........bigger drop would be very nice
  • yudhisthira
    EURJPY dropping nice so far. Halfway down to last week low.
  • Captain Obvious
    C is so fundamentally stronger that they can price their deal at 3.15/share, 10 cents lower than the Treasury's cost basis. Woohoo.
  • yudhisthira
    Rydex funds at 2 to 1 bulls.
    Money market funds at lowest levels since March rally began.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rydex-market-timers-amazing
  • very bearish
    :)
  • yudhisthira
    At some magic moment.
    Now would be fine.
  • Tronacate
    Can you get that gold ratio chart on tradestation???
  • Tronacate
    Anybody else here like to slap the shit out of Lieberman?......what a whiny little prick.....I hate that asshole
  • yudhisthira
    yeah, saving America for large insurance companies. Do they all live in Conn.?
  • Tronacate
    ^^^^truth there.

    He's such a butthurt little bastard........what an attention whore.......I wish Pelosi would just kick him in the balls(if they are there).
  • yudhisthira
    Nothing's going to happen.
    Insurance companies win.
    Mandate without pressure to lower costs and prices.
    Kills the whole thing.
  • Tronacate
    Yuppers.........Lieberman's a fucktard........hope he dies and rots in hell......the sooner the better
  • yudhisthira
    Don't keep it bottled up.
    Let out what you really think.
  • Tronacate
    ^^^^^^^Lieberman's the best recruiting "tool" the Aryan Nation possesses. What a power hungry little fucker.
  • creepy
    hey everyone!

    think we are doing a C triangle


    http://www.creepytechnicalanalysis.blogspot.com/


    congratulations for all evil... very good job...

    cheers

    creepy from portugal
  • mais um...

    LOL

    O teu blog está fixe mas a maioria da malta não é portuguesa
  • Gold_Gerb
    "plus one", now i get it! he he
  • more like..

    another portuguese
  • Gold_Gerb
    truly Evil.
    no espana's?
  • nopes, close to 10 portuguese that post around here
  • I_got_Prechterized
    lol- covered shorts for a couple pennies. don't want to risk holding over and get gapped up the ass. why do I bother getting involved with this market? look at the volume- shameful regardless of what date it is. another wipeout of a bunch of put and call buyers who paid jacked up premium for the FOMC.
    they probably didn't ramp it today because the MMs need it pinned here into opex.
  • DIP BUYING TIME...
  • gsavli
    SP500 down 5 points and dogs are drooling...
  • de3600
    IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY TO DESCRIBE THIS AT COMPLETE BULLSHIT <<<<<< I am screaming

    From The Business Insider, Dec. 16, 2009:

    The Treasury may have made some silly paper "profit" on its bailout of Citigroup (C) but the taxpayer may not get much of anything.

    The Washington Post reports that as part of the bank's TARP payback agreement, it's quietly been given a $38 billion tax break by the IRS. Seriously.
  • irs also gave huge retroactive refunds to the large home builders
  • vision_invisible
    Barney Frank said on tv today that the Wpost is "traditionally the organ of the big banks". When reality eeks out that we are just watching a staged drama of agendas none of which are our own it is amazing to me.
  • Gold_Gerb
    "organ" <trying laughing="" muffle="" the="" to=""></trying>
  • Meanwhile the IRS is aggressively going after the middle class to help fund bankster bailouts and two concurrent wars.

    Anyone out there still have a sense of reality?
  • yudhisthira
    Penny wise, billion dollar foolish.
  • Captain Obvious
    I do, I kick banksters in the balls when i run into them
  • PRSGuitars
    I really need to see that article. And Karl Denninger might have something to say about that...
  • de3600
  • centerline
  • Scoops
    Buying SPY December way OTM puts this morning. Boxing Day has come early this year. Look at that VIX!

    edit: that would be December 2010.
  • centerline
    It is interesting that it bounced clean off of 20.46. Right on support.
  • yudhisthira
    Not much time for a bounce here. But I know they can do it. Think positive.
  • yudhisthira
    I knew they could do it.
    Now do we have to gap up again tomorrow morning?
  • if they want to keep this charade going?

    hell yes!
  • Captain Obvious
    Goldman should just sit on the spx offer and get P3 going, they'll bank coin, implode a few more competitors, and somehow take over our government further.
  • we are 20 points above last weeks low in spite of 25 points of gap ups

    smell the coffee
  • Gold_Gerb
  • gerbil, I don't short directly, just ETFs

    and it has dropped enough to warrant waiting for the 52 upper band (aka gerbil band)
  • Gold_Gerb
  • it will probably slide a little more, but more interesting is going long if it unhooks from the lower 104 band
  • Gold_Gerb
    i'm watching it.
    XOM of course is at support on the bucky chart, and GLD looks like a bounce today.
    definitely interesting.
    these ratio charts are hard on my brain. but excellent to remove the dollar carry picture.
  • but you have to get both right, [stock]:$gold is easy enough, the way... the way... that's the problem
  • Gold_Gerb
    definitely.
    with your training. you understand stock can go up/down/neutral & so can $gold.
    so that's 2^3 possibilities = 9 outcomes. some equivilent!
  • that's why knowing where [stock]:$gold is going (and there we saw the bands hold very well)

    then you have certain lines AND the EWT counts to help you out on what SHOULDN'T happen
  • Gold_Gerb
    you read any Adam Hamilton SSH?
    http://www.zealllc.com/2005/gorex3.htm
  • nopes, but I had read and analysed both gold and oil.

    expected to get long on both after this wave down
  • roscoe_casita
    and only 16 points from new highs.
  • AND 4 gap ups wasted

    they did it since august but this time they lose intraday
  • Gold_Gerb
    Ok, so it's New Moon + 30 minutes. (PST)
    i'm disappointed..so far.
    but i'm not scoffer yet, need a few more months.
  • yudhisthira
    I thought the new moon was at 7:02am eastern. What happened then?
  • heheh. wait til you go through your first new moon in a puetz crash window (near a lunar eclipse) (;
  • jan 30- feb 14?
  • yes that's the next puetz lunar crash window.
  • Gold_Gerb
    i thought that was a typo, then i got educated.
    six days before and three days after a full moon?
    1 in 127000? puulease.
    9 out of 28 is more like it.
    Still, that's better than a coin flip!
    ;-)
  • centerline
    http://stlouisfed.org/

    nice little poll on the right about holiday spending. 85% so far say affected a bunch by economy and slashing holiday spending. what a shocker.
  • @torbjornrive
    $BKX daily, folks.
  • amokta
    Ok, are we still expecting P3 at some point in our lifetime, or has that side order been cancelled?
  • Scoops
    My Elliot Wave Theory sentiment indicator has flashed a record low bearish reading. That is bullish. For the bears.
  • the jury's out (but mole is sharpening his ax and ironing his hood)
  • amokta
    thanks - i think i must move away from this 'P3 or bust' fixation !
  • do think what it MIGHT be
  • PRSGuitars
    NQ (aka Qs, nasdaq) TICK curling lower all day -- lower highs -- so watch out, if we climax selling NQs are gonna get smoked.

    Weird to see the dow underperforming all day -- TF (RUT) doing very well and the Qs even are alright (fine for me, I'm short SPY).
  • PRSGuitars
    Invalidated, new tick highs.

    EUR bottoming? At 5min 20sma now, if it beats that we might head for 5min 50sma near 1.4545 or pivot near 1.4570 again...

    ES/SPY bounced off pivot thus far. Hard to argue anything more than a bounce just yet (but that TICK play is no longer there on NQ)
  • TICK is telling a strong bear story for ES. ESH is heading back down to 1100, possibly 1097.5
  • PRSGuitars
    TICK looks like a megaphone dumping pattern... but now it reverses again?
    light volume...
  • ES is bouncing after filling its gap exactly while on a NLT.
    just covered my short scalps
    who knows if it will bounce into the close
    (there is more downside tmw am though, imo, since we broke a long setup)
    hate this market. full of fails
  • elliott_surfs
    yes, just hit lows for the day =D
  • charles_smith
    goldpackers, that scenario makes sense, esp. in light of DXY probably moving up as per Mole's charts here.

    I have noticed a weird "topping" pattern in the past month, starting from 11/12 on the DJIA. DJI ramps and camps for 3 days, then drops back for 2 days, then ramps back up for 3 days, then drops down for 2 days...last one was 5 days up then 2 down, and this is day 5. If this odd little pattern holds, we drop for 2-3 days. FWIW
  • goldpackers
    Hope it is done but can't rule out this whole mess from 1114 spx is a triangle with A to 1084, the B going to a new high at 1119, C to 1086, D to 1116 and If so we are in E now to ~1092 and then spike to ~ 1122 to 1127 and then it is history.

    Obviously a break of 1084 negates this and says the party has begun!
  • RELOAD PAGE!!!
    (two can play this game ;)
  • Nightwind
    CD...read your post. You are dead on. I have lost a chunk of money because of my opinions. FYI....I shorted Yahoo back in '99, I was lucky but it could have tore my head off at anytime.
  • Man, you are old!
  • gregn
    http://image.orientaltrading.com/otcimg/25_5422.jpg

    I haven't read your guide yet, but shall as soon as I have the focus needed.
  • gregn
    With an end date to the liquidity given, I expect that the smart money will begin to move out slowly so as not to cause a panic -- however any downspike will trigger a lot of nervous sell orders. At least that is what I think...
  • Carl V
    Gregn, very often you made very accurate observations - what you wrote now made perfect sense to me. I expect this behavior to start between Christmas and New Year or slightly before, such as next week. But we might even see this this week already. Fact: volatility has decrease to ridiculous level and bollinger bands have squeezed anywhere and in any time frame - this is generally the prelude of big move. That will happen for sure. The question is just in what direction ;-)
  • gregn
    Aye, I do not have access to my setup, but I posted about that about a week ago: "I believe this is this most compression that we have seen for 2 years: http://screencast.com/t/NTY5MDU5Y Usage of some BB width.
  • gregn
  • @torbjornrive
    Wow nice chart display. Fear will follow; whichever direction.
    Are there anymore shorts to sqeeze - is a question I saw someone ask elsewhere.
    I know Ive been squeezed and have resorted to waiting. (that and losing small)
  • gregn
    I have been thinking a lot about how much short squeezes have contributed to this rally... There had to have been a lot of short positions taken back in '08. I know George Soros made a killing shorting back then... he must have closed out his positions.
  • @torbjornrive
    Totally. That, and people being wrong over and over again (covering every pop) - then home investors jumping in on pops that get them excited.

    All these non-plan people (buying since the summer) are going to be scratching their heads.
    Now that Bernan is the MOTY, will they continue to be saved...is the question.

    No assumptions, just do what you are told and shown.
  • Buffet has been SELLING since july
  • Gold_Gerb
    yeah - but i hear his option expiry is coming soon.
    ;-)
  • Carl V
    Yup! I remember this one! and I like this BB width trailing line -
  • bubble jeopardy
  • as i mentioned earlier we have a confirmed kill

    i repeat, bull blood in the water

    EDIT ABORT, yesterday's low makes a line
    RE EDIT line apparently broken
  • centerline
  • Carl V
    Note that for the first time in the history of this graph (back to 1980) the major curves are now retreating from their historical high of 2008. Strange. Meaning that debt is retreating? Or that we have entered into deflation, then depression? No idea but the fa
  • centerline
  • centerline
    I am not sure how to exactly read that chart either in that regard!
  • Carl V
    fact is that the debt level is decreasing on this chart
  • Nightwind
    Thanks, what surprised me was the "rest of the world".....
  • gregn
    I needed a laugh, thanks.
  • Captain Obvious
    now that all the liquidity programs have an end date what the hell keeps this POS levitated? WTF
  • NHT, 870 ==> more intraday downside, maybe a quick gap fill before bonds close
  • "NHT, 870 ==> more intraday downside, maybe a quick gap fill before bonds close"

    I CALLLLLED IT (:

    now, get this, the LONG is broken. ESH 1100 to be revisited soon

    LONG FAZ from 20.05
  • though spx's gyrations look like a drunk policeman gold seems to confirm a kill
  • centerline
    I just got back again. Saw that crazy circle-jerk spike on SPX. Ha, ha. Go left, go right, go up, go down... ahhhhhh. Hilarious. What a turd. Ha, ha.
  • Gold_Gerb
    I saw the DOW swing up 1 min, down the next. went to lunch.
    did I miss anything?

    blood in the water, he he.

    DOW 10,433?
    not another meth teeth chart!
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