Could it be??

Berk here with a number of things that should speak very good news to those with a bearish bias.  We might have a tiny little push higher, but as Mole has said… running on fumes…

$INDU counts

$INDU counts

The reason I am leaning towards the black count is that it would make a time proportion of about 50% which would be stellar.  Much better than the proposed I-II, i-ii suggested in the alt count, but it is the next best bearish count.  Fumes on the MACD, notice the final push higher never even ticked into the black, and the rally peak was with less momentum than the wave iv peak.

$NDX count is the same, with no funky I-II, i-ii alternate.

$NDX count

$NDX count

This count has us looking to end minute II on a rally above the 1710 area, and likely towards 1730.  The red trendlines coincidentally align with the 50% and 38% retracement levels.  The market knew before that they were important, and I think it will likely give at least one of the a test before we turn lower.  As I have been saying, should we get this push higher (and hopefully a lower $VIX) it will be THE BEST time to buy your long-term OTM puts for quite some time.  The reason is the $VIX.

Get 'em while they're cheap

Get 'em while they're cheap

Notice that once we broke that triangle in September, the $VIX was trading in the mid-70s by October.   We could have just completed an expanding diagonal, broke to the upside, and are restesting the break-out level now.  I am expecting this signal to not play out, however I will be cautious should we break last Thursday’s highs…

I did a little comparison today that I found interesting.  I measured the date and price of Minor wave 1 down inside I3 down.  I found that from a similar entry point that you might find in the next few days, that there was a 14% drop in 40 days.  That move should end us about 92 in the SPY by mid to late December.  SPY options are trading at roughly 27% IV right now.  If the $VIX doubles like it did in that corresponding move to SPY’s m1 I3 drop, then we can expect the SPY IV to move from 27% into the 50% range.

Looking at the Sep ‘10 SPY 93 Puts, trading at roughly $6 right now, if the SPY were to go nowhere by Dec ‘09 Expiry, but the $VIX were to move into the 55 range, those SPY 93 puts you bought at $6 would be worth nearly $15.  That’s with the market going nowhere.  Add in a 12 point drop to get us to target, and the options are trading at $19.  Now what does that tell you?  $8 volatility gain compared to a $4 price gain.  That should help you understand why I am a volatility trader.

Now for more fun…  If you were to buy the Sep ‘10 SPY 60 Puts at around $.90, with no price move, and a similar $VIX move, your $.90 would be worth $4.5.  A 400% gain on volatility alone (and remember, that’s with the $VIX in the mid-50s!!)!

That last paragraph should make you folks plenty of dough in the coming months.

My final thought on the night is that if we can’t take out last Thursday’s high be the end of the week, or early next week we won’t.  The reason I find Thursday’s candle important is that is was the first large snap-back rally that was MORE than FULLY reversed (i.e. new low on the next candle).  This is a very bearish move, and failure to surpass or even test that level have been telling thus far.  I would be ballsy enough to say that if we couldn’t do it on Fed day, we won’t but I still think we might have a little potential for a small push up…  I expect some downside tomorrow, but we will want to watch closely, if the buyers don’t step up, we could be falling directly from here in a way where as what I have labeled “A” is actually the end of “II.”

Skål!

This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 4th, 2009 at 8:26 pm and is filed under Market Outlook. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

  • Schwerepunkt
    USD is not supporting the move up in equities since 0845h. USD is actually stronger from that time until now, while equity markets are higher in the same timeframe. Divergence. Now, does it mean equities are leading currencies, or will they decline to get back in line with the USD?

    Edit: I should clarify that I'm only looking at EUR:USD, not DXY.

    Edit2: USD turning down now, will support a higher move in ES. Maybe 1066 in play today?
  • Nightwind
    Looks to me like the spx IHS could probally morph into a bear flag. The top of flag line max for today is 1068 and Monday is 1073. If it breaks above the flag line, it could be a whole new ballgame. SDS is confirming the possible pattern.
  • angrywetcat ©
  • ¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨
    ¨°º¤ø„¸ N E W „ø¤º°¨
    ¸„ø¤º°¨ P O S T ``°º¤ø„¸
    ¸„ø¤º°¨¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°º¤ø„¸
    http://evilspeculator.com/?p=12430

    Skål!
  • SPY just tickled the down-sloping trendline from *the* high - let's see what happens here...
  • gregn
    Which trend line are you seeing? http://screencast.com/t/X9A4PNugBH
  • Me_XMan
    Looking like bulls are back at it.
  • fuw
    S&P heading up along with TRIN - something is off.
  • dis... tri...bu...tion.... *cough*
  • Me_XMan
    If SPX breaks 1061 then watch for more retrace up?
  • anything could happen really - but (how many times have we said this??) we are getting towards a crucial juncture, aye

    but if this is minute wave ii then it can retrace up to 100% (i.e. 1101) without breaking any rules, although really if it gets up towards there the odds of soylent blue rise dramatically.

    "this is it" has to be the favourite scenario as of now, but I don't personally have it as the runaway leader... once bitten and all that
  • Guest
    Big money has been selling for the last month. Hedge funds were forced out of positions late last month, risk has been taken right down already. The spring is re-coiled.
  • Me_XMan
    So you're looking for market to run to SPX 1200?
  • Guest
    short-term, I think it can go back to 1090. will hedge up there, look for a pull-back then a move to new highs. I haven't established a proper upside target yet as it depends on how long it takes to get through the highs.
  • Tronacate
    IYR.......skiing downhill....gap fill and looking for the really steep and deep
  • Tronacate
    Seems the retail dumbos are buying the news.....and the big money is selling the rips.......
  • fuw
    Be careful with what you say... I think most people here fall into the retail category ;)
  • Vardoger
    True, I'm retail for sure. And I'm long ;)

    Certainly don't disagree about big money selling rips either!
  • I_got_Prechterized
    same pattern developing as yesterday. Financials underperforming again.
  • killafox
    Inverted H&S activated in german DAx
  • fuw
    Timeframe? I'm not seeing a clear pattern.
  • tradejane
    Thank you catracho, great chart as always. Sure looks like it wants to go there. Commerzbank still very weak though....
  • killafox
    30 min its more clear, neckline 4440 target 4600
  • tradejane
    It can be seen quite clearly on 30 min/1 hour charts.
  • fuw
    Ok, I see what you mean. I bit sloppy in my eyes though.
  • tradejane
    Not so fast. Banks are still very weak even though they haven't made any new lows. Looking for UYG to lose the $5 today. Well, maybe not exactly *today* but soon. :D

    TD-streamer giving me a headache again.
  • Vardoger
    Yeah going to have same pattern in spx if we are green today. Will fail IMHO but should build out and see 106X by Friday or Monday.
  • killafox
    Hello provably we going to have more upside today probably finish wave C of 2 today check out at http://marketrendwaves.blogspot.com/
    regards and good trades
  • Guest
    we are at quite minor resistance right now, I think it will break. Talking equities.
  • tradejane
    DAX testing the 5480 area for the 3rd time this week, things could get really interesting, on both sides of the Pond, if it goes above that. Should that happen first target remains the 5550 area.
  • gregn
    News:

    "The following are the pivot points for the SPX. Pivot High : 1053.750, Pivot Low: 1037.900. These were calculated using the DeMark method. It is generally believed to be bullish when price breaks out above the pivot high or bearish when price breaks down below the pivot low."
  • amokta
    what happened to dollar - even prechter is sweating re his dollar-bull call !
    tell me 'spy' puts - i take it means puts on the 'e-mini'? - are these cash settled options?
    how come spx dec10 puts havent fallen in value even though s&p has gone up a bit?
  • CorporalCarrot
    Google "Dollar Carry trade" and I'm sure you will find plenty. Essentially, Dollar Strength - Flight to safety, Dollar Weakness - Flight to risk. Thus, dollar up, equities down and vice versa.

    SPY puts, these are put options on the SPY etf......this is an etf that tracks the S&P 500. Plug the ticker into your brokers quote screen and you'll find it.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=spy

    Greg is correct. Options can go up in value if volatility spikes, even where the underlying falls.
  • amokta
    thanks. Ok, lets see what happens today in markets !
  • gregn
    I think Berk explained this before, it is due to the volatility.
  • amokta
    thanks - thought so, just wanted to double check
  • Tronacate
    Increased productivity really means pissed off workers........extra work dumped in the lap of those remaining........morale needs to be evaluated.......people hate their employers.
  • Right now I am getting my head around what it would mean if gold were the new bubble...like tulips but just not as nice smelling. Initially it seems like a pretty good fit, just trying to flesh it out now..
  • gmak
    Even as the USD gets loved, Mike Tyson style, here is an extract from the Reuter's London fixed income desk. To me, there may not be consumer price inflation - but there sure is tradeable asset inflation. Just like 2002 - 2007. Deja vu all over again. Play the liquidity, not the news, not the fundamentals. Watch the 10 year rate as the market is calling Ben's bluff (finally). TIPS look like inflation expectations are rising, at least among the bond vigilantes.

    <quote>
    ...the FT"s Krishna Guha who appears to have an inside track on Fed thinking writes this morning that yesterday"s statement was the "first steps in return to more hawkish stance." Really? And not sure if you saw it but CNBC"s Steve Liesman nearly fell out of his chair after the Fed verdict hit, saying it was a clear indication that the Fed was to change its language hawkishly at the December FOMC meeting. Really; if so, he must have had the Dudleys over for dinner recently as for the life of us, we"re not sure how one can jump to that conclusion in what was written in the FOMC statement.

    Little reason not to go off of face value and conclude that the Fed will continue to use near all tools available to secure a sustainable recovery. As we wrote yesterday, one worry that the market has is at what cost and will it turn out to be a pyrrhic victory as dollar/treasury creditors back away debasing the currency and inciting a bond bear raid of major proportions. Not privy to his thoughts just yet, though it appears as if PIMCO"s El Erian shares similar concerns as he writes of the Fed fostering short-term stability at the cost of longer-term instability.

    Either way, part of the markets" job is to be a Monday morning quarterback and right now the market thinks it has a better game plan than Ben and the Boys. With term rates rising, a case can be made that the Fed is losing control of policy and that their focus on anchoring the funds rate to zero is seeing at least the initial stirring of the bond vigilantes. No signs of inflation or inflation expectations? CRB up 8% in a month and TIP breakevens breaking out to the upside -- seems someone is expecting something.

    <end quote=""></end></quote>
  • G'Morning Kids!

    Has Mr. Market put the kabosh on your love life? Don't fret - Help is on the way......

    Dating Guide for the Economically Depressed

    http://outsidethe-cardboard-box.tumblr.com/post/231518049/dating-guide-for-the-economically-depressed
  • CorporalCarrot
    Forgetting the market effect for a second, in the real world its hilarious how this stuff gets reported.

    "There were further signs of labor market improvement, with the number of people collecting long-term unemployment benefits dropping 68,000 to 5.75 million in the week ended Oct. 24, the lowest since March.
    So-called continuing claims have stayed below the 6 million mark for a third successive week. The decline is likely both the result of fewer new applications for unemployment benefits and many jobless workers exhausting their benefits. "

    Its funny how they have no shame in heralding this as an "improvement", while at the same time pointing out that its most likely people exhausting benefits.

    I would have more respect if they just came out and blatantly said;

    "There were further signs of labour market improvement from the Treasury's perspective, as the number of people we no longer have to pay unemployment assistance to rose again".
  • dollar
    The number of people who’ve used up their benefits and are now collecting extended payments climbed by 115,000 to 4.01 million in the week ended Oct. 17 from the prior week.
  • gmak
    Didn't the .gov just vote to extend benefits (again)?
  • Tronacate
    The new job creation is walking to the post office to collect your unemployment check
  • CorporalCarrot
    Up we go..........at least initially :)
  • Guest
    512K. Productivity is a huge beat. That is a perfect data set for equities. Growth but no inflation and employment improving but not too quickly. No rate hikes coming.
  • Guest
    Jobless claims in 7 mins. I think there is a good chance of initial claims <500k. Consensus is 522K.
  • Schwerepunkt
    Wow, perhaps more important, Unit Labour Costs dropped more than expected. That will give plenty of cover for the ZIRP-gang to continue their rape of the dollar.
  • Schwerepunkt
    ADP (notoriously unreliable, I know) was slightly higher than expected. So, I would think that still lowers the chances of a positive surprise on initial claims, but we'll see soon enough.

    Edit: good call Bob . . .
  • bergs
    Great post Berk. You and Mole are awesome.

    Nice to see Annamall post, I miss her.

    Not sure if minute wave two will be more complex.

    http://screencast.com/t/PnNG8N58B
  • miss you too Bergs, as always I am reading :)
  • gmak
    Pre-Market warm up
    Equity
    SPX daily put a pin through BIG YELLOW (trend line from the SPX peak in 2007) but did not close above. A channel /trend line drawn from the high of October 21, 2009 intersects ULTRAVIOLET (trend line from the March 2009 low) at around 1070 tomorrow.
    I believe that this is an illusion for the following reason. Today, over $40 BB in TAF money matures and gets pulled from the financial system. I believe that the move up we’ve seen this week is the result of the MBS purchase program putting liquidity into the system in advance of this maturity. Net /net, there is probably no change – but the unevenness of doing the MBS first and then taking back with the TAF maturity causes swings in risky assets (the NEW money in the financial system has to go somewhere).
    I believe that today should be a down day for risky assets due to the TAF maturity. Now, if the FED somehow rolls it over – that is a different story. But we haven’t seen any of that for a while.
    See here:
    http://www.gmtfo.com/reporeader/OMOps.aspx

    Today at 4 PM or so, the FED B/S as at Nov 4 (yesterday) is released. This will show the net expansion /contraction in the financial system for the week and help me understand what has happened with the MBS and other sources of liquidity. It will be here:
    http://www.federalreserve.gov/RELEASES/H41/

    Asia was red, Europe is red (and opened down. The DAX was moving up from 4AM to 5AM, but opened down and is still down. The green sectors (100% of stocks) are Telecom, Consumer services, Health care and basic materials. This looks like Monday at this time which was a volatile day.
    ES has been flat since lockup yesterday. Except for a bounce off the S1 pivot at around 4AM EST. News around that time was Europe retail sales which were -0.7% MoM vs expectations of 0.3% - but this would hardly make ES pop.

    ES pivots:
    R2: 1066.50 – This is where we would be if SPX hits the 1070 mark at the juncture of the recent downward trend line and BIG YELLOW
    R1: 1056.75 = pounded this twice yesterday.
    Neutral: 1048.75 = Acted as a ceiling overnight. Trying to get above this into the open.
    S1: 1039 = Floor for overnight action
    S2: 1031 = Launch area on Tuesday for the ramp up.

    FX
    USD was pounded yesterday and the volatility was astonishing with over 70 pips movement in a minute or two. Since then, it strengthened a bit but is showing some small weakness into the NY open.
    CAD is a bit weaker. JPY is stronger, EUR and GBP are stronger. Looks like everyone wants to sit on two horses. JPY up should mean a move away from risky assets. EUR and GBP mean a move towards. The GBP can be explained by the fact that even though the BOE is going to continue printing money through their version of QE etc, it’s not as much as was expected. Hence a bit of strength.
    The FX volatility yesterday ran a lot of stops both ways and destroyed many positions, so expect caution there going forward.

    EUR pivots:
    R2: 1.5031
    R1: `1.4946
    Neutral: 1.4824 – acting as a floor after midnight.
    S1: 1.4739
    S2: 1.4618


    News
    ECB keeps key rate at record low of 1%, may move closer to exit from programs.
    BoE boosts bond purchase program less than expected
    Agrium increases offer fror CF.
    UBS fined by UK over unauthorized trades
    Default rat rises to highest level since depression according to Moody’s
    Spanish stocks doing well due to profits from Latam.

    Data
    8:30
    Q3 non-farm productivity
    Unit Labour costs
    Initial Jobless claims
    Continuing claims
    10AM
    ICSC chain store sales YoY.

    Enjoy the day. It will be interesting.
  • Schwerepunkt
    Nice summary.
  • GM all,

    PART I: POSSIBLE EARNINGS PLAY

    HANS earnings tomorrow AH. 10% short interest. Appears coiled and due for a big move?-

    http://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=hans&ty=c&ta=1&p=d

    Some probabilities on HANS earnings-

    I looked at all the earnings since 2001. HANS was never up after earnings in all the four quarters in any given year. So far in 2009, it went up during the previous three earnings. What are the odds that it will go up this quarter?

    http://busystock.com/i.php?s=hans

    So odds favor a down move after earnings tomorrow. I am waiting to hear Anna's input on this.


    PART II: POSSIBLE PRE-EARNINGS RUN-UP PLAY

    If any one is willing to take some risk, try ITM calls on ENER and WNR for possible pre-earnings run up. Earnings are on Monday pre-market, both have a high short interest ( ENER 33% and WNR 55%) and are trading near 52 week lows. The shorts might cover before earnings on Monday and they both might be up on Friday. On WNR, I am hoping for a double bottom at 4.5-5.0, which was the low in Oct (24th-29th) 2008. I would close the trade before EOD friday.


    PART III: OVERSOLD STOCKS WATCH LIST WITH IDEAL TARGET ENTRY PRICE

    Here are some stocks that are oversold (RSI <30) and my ideal target entry prices. The exit price would be about 7-10% from the target entry price-

    NTRS 48-49, STT @ 38-39, GRMN @ 23-24, OXPS @ 14-14.2, STEC @ 12.5-13.0,

    ILMN @ 30-31, WFR @ 12.0-12.3, AMGN @ 50-51, NRG @ 22-23, PALM @ 9.5-10
  • john_matrix
    JP Morgan agrees $75m bribe fine

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8343984.stm
  • raised_by_wolves
    PRSGuitars, this was the $INDU down channel with extensions that I had previously drawn.

    http://screencast.com/t/G4gHKktBgl3V

    That was before listening to Hendrix play "Are You Experienced" live at Winterland. (Turn the volume way, way up).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efeXyDZ24qE

    I went into a trance for seven minutes and when I emerged on the other side, I saw that I had redrew the hell out of the $INDU down channel. Not sure if this useful or not. Would be so fun to successfully trade the middle territory with only the lines and indicators. Will find out if that's possible after I wake up from the less than three available hours of sleep I have ahead of me. Perhaps Jimi is telling me not to fuck around with that shit. Stay out of the middle. Trade the extremes. Reversals. When will there be break out?

    http://screencast.com/t/AXJqHeLD1Rq

    Just now, I got a kick out of Hendrix saying this to his audience: "Yeah, that's really a drag sometimes when your trying to play some sounds and like your strings slip off the thing up here and like we'll be having that trouble all night tonight but we'll just pretend there ain't no strings so therefore there's not slip off."

    In his honor, I'm going to substitute the "there is no spoon" Matrix reference with "there ain't no strings," at least when I'm talking to myself. Hmm, I could start combining Hendrix quotes and Matrix lines. "Music is a safe kind of high" (Hendrix), but mescaline, well, "it's the only way to fly" (Matrix).

    Must listen to one more song before bed. Hendrix cover of "Like A Rolling Stone," again, live at Winterland.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZhEnGiftnU

    Damn son, what an intro.
  • cub! cut on the acids

    nevertheless 9675 and if 9800 is broken we're in deep truble
  • raised_by_wolves
    Don't worry (remember, not logical), my hits are small enough so that I don't get a full trip effect. For me, it's not a recreational drug so much as a working drug.

    Define "we" in your statement "we're in deep truble."
  • btw, the "drop the acids" was a joke, the enthogenic effects are clinicaly interesting and damage of alcohol is far worse
  • we that remained verticaly challanged
  • raised_by_wolves
    Then "we" doesn't include me.

    I will bank coin with my verticals as long as AMZN moves up or down by more than ~5% before November expiration.
  • remainED, past tense

    by november OPEX I should have passed to cash
  • fuw
    Euro/usd 8h:

    http://www.screencast.com/t/bmTYd4E7

    The triangle break and the breach of the long term trendline (upper green) didn't work out, and we're back in the highlighted indecision zone. Yesterday we briefly broke above it, but it didn't manage to hold there.
  • Hey Berk excellent work your'e the best

    Salude
    Anna
  • good morning anna, doing well?

    what's your call for today? I ask for an initial drop, a retest of yesterday's high and a nice fat drop
  • I don't really feel we get any huge sell off, in fact we may take a quick run up to 1075, before a nice decent

    Glad to see you Hamster :)
  • not after yesterday's drop we don't, the 3 extension was closed by it.

    but that's my count ;-)

    nice to see you too, drop by anytime ;-)
  • I thought so too, now I have revised my take to the one I mentioned, CSCO put a floor in we might see 1038 but not much more, but as we know we shall know shortly...:))
    Miss ya
  • we'll see, so far all's on the table.

    drop by more often ;-) I'm still here
  • Hey Hamster, I am doing great, just wanted to stop by and say hello and applaude Berk :)

    Hope you are too :)
  • fuw
    Nice to see you in here Anna!
  • GM Fuw nice to see you too! :)))
  • Nightwind
    Berk, excellent analysis. I agree that the time proportions didn't look right to me either. I think we could easily hit the 1070-1080ish area if the spx breaks above its slanting IHS neckline of 1060ish on the hrly charts.
  • john_matrix
    Nice charts Berk, appreciate all the work
  • goldpackers
    Important Gann turn on 11-17 and smaller on 11-24. Cycle low due second half of this month.
  • goldpackers
    If bearish, we just completed a flat 2 wave (which is not as common as in a 4th wave) and we are headed down in a third of III or C? Favor we will trade an ABC X ABC down to 950 to 980 over the next 2 to 3 weeks. First ABC 990 to 1020 rally to 1040 ish in X and then the final ABC down. Don't believe the "Big One" starts until next spring. 2nd and 3rd quarter in 2010 will be when earnings comparisons get tough.
  • fuw
    I guess that there is no argument that VIX is in a transition mode, but I just wanted to point out that it is painting a pretty clear expanding triangle, indicating reversal. You could say that the VIX of the VIX is going up (ie increased volatility). Thoughts on this?
  • 36 should be certain, 50 probable... afterwards it depends on this being THE ONE
  • fuw
    A follow up question is if the expanding triangle is finished (and we are going higher), or if we are going down to new lows before shooting up. Possible VIX readings below 20 would be scary for bears in the short-medium term.
  • remember this is only an opinion. I don't see below 20 before 36 and likely 50.

    and a new sub 25 phase is only present in some of the bulish scenarios (not even all of them)

    on that I'm strongly with mole and berk, VIX was probably doing the low of years
    p.s. higher vix does not preclude an higher high on s&p
  • fuw
    I agree with you, and my bias is also that we've seen the VIX lows. In the previous post I'm just running with the pattern for sake of argument, and to evaluate possible scenarios. For sub-20 to happen some major bullish news is probably needed.
  • I know, and what is more important is that people know that when it's their money, it's their call.

    But it sure helps talking a bit with others
  • Guest
    stops just triggered on estoxx, brokers telling me they had aggressive sellers below 2720. volumes were low so impact was high but they are now done. S-T market is going to be choppy over the jobs data but it is going up. Bearish sentiment is just too pervasive. Check http://www.aaii.com/sentimentsurvey/

    This is a measure which is very useful at extremes, other times it is just noise but we are at an extreme right now.

    Look at what corporates are saying. Cisco: seeing economic recovery around the world. ITV: advertising revenues turning positive. The delta to corporate earnings from revenue growth is huge. ITV up 8% this am and still a cheap share.

  • I_got_Prechterized
    bob, I looked at the sentiment numbers from the link you provided. However, those readings don't seem to be the most reliable contrarian indicators in the least. Perhaps the subset of investors taking this survey is not the greatest. But remember, in today's environment, the markets are inherently bullish and the path of least resistance is higher. Money regularly flows into equities from retirement plans. The majority of funds are long only. Unless we have a crisis in progress, this money continues to flow in. Bears are always just a fraction of the investing public.

    And many of the arguments you present are very compelling, but I hope you don't really use incoming news or economic data to form your decisions. The fact is we, the general public, are all behind the curve with respect to news. All good news flowing in these days has likely long been priced in by the smart money. Sadly, GS and others were probably privy to this news long before you or I. The cliches "Buy the rumor, sell the news" and "Rallies end on good news" seem very prophetic.

    I posted yesterday I went hugely short at 1058. Based on price action, I see no reason to exit that position. My philosophy is that news, earnings, etc. are just noise. The only thing that pays is price action. And it is starting to become evident that the market can no longer rally on so called "good news". Everyone is watching 1020. I think we bounce off it once and then slice through it like butter.

    However, if we can break above 1060 again, I'd likely reassess.
  • Guest
    I'm not sure how you come up with that conclusion. Extreme low readings tend be be consistent with market lows. It's not a perfect indicator but what is?

    I agree that news is largely priced in by the time it comes. But that doesn't mean you cannot attempt to get ahead of estimates of that news. It's a lot of work but it is possible. Momentum of news is important, as are expectations and sentiment. That is what I do for a living so I don't really include myself in your description of 'the general public'.

    Price action is important and we look at that a lot too but it is important to remember that price charts are a historical record, not a road map to the future. We use a lot of TA but are always mindful that fundamentals can drive prices to levels where the technical bias can change very quickly.
  • "We use a lot of TA but are always mindful that fundamentals can drive prices to levels where the technical bias can change very quickly."

    at current prices, taking into account earnings and growth, would you buy any stock on fundamentals?
  • Guest
    Yes, quite a lot. I mainly look at Europe though.
  • care to give some examples?

  • Guest
    I would buy HEI GY, AU/ LN, AIXA GY, IMT LN, YAR NO for starters
  • Nightwind
    Hey Bob, does there ever come a time when the public actually gets it right in your view? I think that the 08 market drop still has a lot people spooked whom will probally never go back to the equity market.
  • Guest
    I'm sure you can find an example somewhere but it's not a bet I would ever take. There are some very smart retail investors but in aggregate they are rubbish. I think it is just a self-fulfilling prophecy - by definition, when all investors are in a position, there is no one left to take the trade in their direction.
  • calm down, though I don't see mole's 1066, 1062 might be in order
  • well if things are improving fundamentally then the rally in mkts to date has probably already priced it in? BIG rally from here would have to suggest EXTRA ordinary pluses for future..maybe we go to a new high..but we have been rallying in face of bad news...if news flow turns positive maybe the end of the rally soon? OR is it a case of "mkts climb wall of worry" AND "mkts climb wall of optimism" :) just random thoughts...
  • well, europe is faling, futures are falling

    nice
  • PRSGuitars
    Whatever you're smoking, hamster, I want some (it's better than this crazy sticky, albeit not that good herb I have now)...


    Futs up as far as I can see (well, b/e or so for the night, though I caught 2 /es from 1041 so I'm a happy guitarist at the moment)

  • dec futures S&P (has delay at boursorama) but was giving -0,08% just now
  • PRSGuitars
    Just giving you a hard time. Hey, thanks for the moderating you do around here -- you keep the riffraff out (and the riffrats in, which is a good thing). Stellar responses to the (many) questions that come up, too, so if Mole's not thanking you (not saying he's not; just saying you deserve credit) then you should be thanked!

    Since you're a Blade Runner fan (and I am too but more importantly, an Eddie James Olmos fan [knew him from BSG but checked out Blade Runner subsequently,]), I had my gf read Brave New World recently. Thought that Matrix-y (for lack of a better pop culture representative of the Blade Runner-like technological mindfuck genre; Dark City, perhaps? Keifer Sutherland at his weirdest) stuff might be up your alley. I'm a big fan of the neo-noir future flicks, or other dystopic literature (for that matter)... you?
  • he has (and you might have seen it) though it's a very small repyment for what he gives us. as for my answers... they reflect the little i know and the un-ortodox approach I have (and I give fair warning of that)

    as for moderating, that's what I try, moderating being the opposit of escalating ;-) . There as well I try explaining the rules (as I see them) and use as little "hard moderation" as possible.

    As for blade runner... it's THE perfect film, story, photography, music, atmosphere

    Was already late in BSG 2000 (saw the original bsg when I was a kid) when I realised that wrecked poxy face looked familiar (at half weight)

    Don't use the term matrix-y, use the term Dickean (from P.K.Dick) in the 60's he had taken mindfuck o the extreme

    Matrix is so so, dark city is very good, eXistenZ is better. Abre los ojos (original for the vanilla sky remake) not half bad

    try some PKD books, UBIK, The 3 stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, a maze of death (this one being the lightest and closest to matrix, the others are way beyond... and there are stranger ones)

    p.s. got 3 or 4 thousand science fiction books
  • PRSGuitars
    A+

    just the kind of reply I wanted to hear, Hamster. I will check out Phil D (have heard much of but never read) in the near future.

    Oh and Ender's Game. The Usual Suspects + the Future = Ender's Game like BSG (new) = West Wing + Starship Troopers. It's a pretty cool mindfuck.

    Have a good one -- up nicely for the night and hedged so I might actually get some sleep for once. Hrm...
  • scott card's ender's series? got them until one of the shadows

  • tradejane
    Unfortunately things are not as bad as they look:

    http://www.screencast.com/t/TAT8nSQq

    PS. http://www.screencast.com/t/BfBBMYGj
  • Woden
    Hi Jane
    DAX: do you see bearish wedge from 6th marts, trendline testet two days ago and today, but not broken. Target 4500-5000

    http://screencast.com/t/Jxfq08wJgf
  • tradejane
    Hi Woden,

    I do see it, my targets are similar. My reference was purely short-term. Imo, as long as it doesn't do anything crazy like go above 5650 we should be ok. GL
  • Woden
    Shorttime i see we have made the h and need the s in a formation not to be named. Or an inverse cup and handle where handle is under construction.

    http://screencast.com/t/Gifa6hC2s
  • funny mine looks like we had a break a couple of days ago..HOWEVER has not been decisive yet...we could easily skip back in and then it's back to the wedge channel again...so the JURY IS OUT at the mo...
    http://www.screencast.com/t/NbKe5FD14q
  • ok, half an hour screws everything.... LOL
  • Guest
    "oscar" video out for Thursday day trades: Long Euro, Short 30-yr T-Bond.
    http://www.youtube.com/futuresanalysts
    "Stops Are In . . . Emotions Are Out."
  • CorporalCarrot
    Rather hungover this morning in Sunny (for a change) Ireland. Watching Liverpool concede that late equaliser got me rather giddy, so a few more pints were consumed than normal.

    It helped that I banked some nice coin yesterday, an even managed to add to shorts at above 9900. The collapse in the last half hour made me laugh. The only regret I have is not following my instincts; information saturation meant I totally expected a major spike following the FOMC, so I left orders overhead from 9950 to 10000 just in case which never got hit obviously.

    Still, it could have been worse.

    Yesterdays action now definitely distinguishes the pullback from the high from the August, Sept and October pullbacks. One concern I have is that I just heard a guy on Bloomberg talking about the beginnings of a H&S topping pattern..........which gave me major deja-vu to June's H&S which was the most publicly talked about (and therefore destined to fail) technical pattern I have ever seen.

    Bob would be interested in your views on what happened yesterday.
  • Guest
    We are in a very whippy phase in markets - I think it is a 4. So hard to stay in positions but a prelude to a final move, which would be up. The problem at the moment is that the market is schizo - it is worried about the economy but also worried about stimulus withdrawal. So good economic data is bad unless it is not really that great in which case it will keep rates low, etc. Yesterday, the story doing the rounds was that Congress are going to cap credit card rates which got people worried about bank earnings again. Also, the Fed appear to be laying the ground for raising rates next year when the data improves. That worries people. But markets tend to go up in this environment but it is more of a trending range than a melt-up.

    We have very important employment data out today - that will define market direction. Given current investor sentiment levels, I think the chances of a big up move are high. This has all the hallmarks of the July retracement.
  • july? up? maybe, but not yet let's talk next week
  • Guest
    The AAII investor sentiment survey just registered one of the most bearish readings ever. That is a very bullish indicator for markets.
  • strange, the BPSPX is still 73, 5 more points down to go before any danger zone
  • Guest
    I'm so bullish I feel sick. We have taken our fund 150% long.
  • hope it was gold long

    yesterday spx:gold backtested and refused 200MA

  • 60m VIX chart is backtesting the rising trendline that it fell out of today. I think today's sell into the close was a statement.

    We're getting mixed signals from stochastics. 60m sell, daily buy, and weekly sell. Despite the conflicting signals, I think VIX climbs back into the rising trendline and we see 32 shortly.

    Bears are back. Tomorrow SPY will at least try to fall back into the descending channel that we climbed out of today.
  • Guest
    Smartp is a neural net based on Elliott Waves, Cycles and Mathematical Techniques. It is 100% mechanical system written in early 2007.Here's their latest --
    "Smartp – Week of 11/2/09.
    - The markets are done correcting Price wise with the lows of 11/2/09.
    - The rhythm of “last week of the month” highs and “first week of the month” lows is still intact and it has delivered us 11/2/09 lows
    - Base formation is complete and we have broken through the Bear channel of the decline
    - I am expecting, if at all, another hit on the broken channel that may occur between Wed/Thu with the FOMC related volatility
    - But other than that – markets are headed up strongly to test October highs, and eventually beyond that"
    http://www.timeandcycles.com/articles/?p=322

    Chanakya/Smartp
  • raised_by_wolves
    MariAroma,

    I value your contributions. You find and share a lot of information that can be important and relevant for us rats. That said, I wish you would share about how you process the information that you post. I encourage you to share something personal.

    There seems to be a lot of contradictory evidence for a bearish or bullish case. Which evidence are you prioritizing? Have you made a verdict? For your trading style, does it matter a little, a lot, or not at all whether you make a verdict?

    Like Smartp, bobthehorse thinks the markets are eventually going beyond the October highs. What's important to me is that he's trading what he thinks. Now, bobthehorse hasn't persuaded me to go long, but if I were to allow him to persuade me to go long, I would need to know that he's doing the same.

    My questions for you are what do you think, and how do you trade what you think?
  • Guest
    Excellent question, wolves, because there's a lot of conflicting info out there. I make mostly "position" trades based on intermediate-term projections. Since they are not all in alignment right now, I'm out. I try to wait 'til everything is pointing the same way, get in (with stops), then get out when projections change.
    "I'd rather be out wishing I were in, than in wishing I were out."
  • raised_by_wolves
    Thank you for replying. Maybe I'll think of some more questions to ask you in the future.
  • http://screencast.com/t/dvjsOWjj1

    Here we go again....shorting on weakness....and the pattern that we do not speak of.

    Silver
  • Guest
    30-minute MP3 with analysis of lots of purdy charts. Bottom line: bearish equities with possible one more bounce. Watch dollar/Vix for possible upside break. Gold and oil consolidating with possible break-out to 5th (last) wave up to top.
    http://breakpointtrades.com/controls/preview.php?la_id=812
  • PRSGuitars
    Really liked that, well laid out and nicely presented overall... is that a subscription service? I've never heard of breakpoint before...

    Thanks as always Mari!
  • Guest
    Yes, PRS, they seem to be very good technicians there. They do have some paid services, but send out these free updates, usually Sunday and mid-week. Look for sign-up at the homepage of BreakpointTrades.com
  • VIX, a break under 26.65, and the QQQQ could reach 42.2 - 42.4
  • I think I'm a little bearish too!
    95%, I can get out of STT $43-$44,
    , but I also think it will go lower to 38.7--The market will have to go lower, for me to get the lower price, STT closed 40.6.
  • BigHouse(Aka Mr Vix)
    Good post on the bear on The dailymail UK ..

    http://screencast.com/t/9WdkHKSk1yoM
  • Guest
    From Steve Hochberg's STU --
    "Update for Wednesday, November 4, 2009; 5:05 PM, Eastern.

    "I will be a guest on CNBC tomorrow morning (Thurs.) at 9:35 am Eastern, shortly after the opening bell.--SH

    "[Bottom Line]: The market’s main trend remains down, as Primary wave 3 (circle) is still in its very early stages. The market has traded “heavy” all week and key secondary indexes keep leading the path lower. Whether or not stocks can muster another near-term rally leg, the next leg down to even lower levels is fast approaching."
  • JoeBear
    Berk, hell of a post! Really appreciate your counts and analysis. This is obviously a pretty critical time -- whoever can determine with high confidence that P3 has truly started (and act wisely on it) will bank serious coin.

    BTW, gold has just topped for sure: http://www.businessinsider.com/whoa-spencer-pratt-is-a-gold-guru-2009-11

    A B-list celebrity dunce touting gold via twitter must be the modern day equivalent of Joseph Kennedy getting a stock tip from the shoe-shine boy.
  • Guest
    Free week at Elliott Wave International starts today and includes free access to two different monthly newsletters and Short Term Update to next Wednesday. Instructions here
  • Please let me post that next time as I am an affiliate. Sorry - server hosting ain't cheap.
  • Publius Federali
    Thanks for the heads up. I was already a member and they still allowed me to partake in the free week.
  • Guest
    Boy, are they BEARISH over there !
  • Berk, how do you do calculation on Vix versus options pricing?

    I tried to do a Delta * puts*100 * underlying price and calc move of street value of puts, and then hedge with long futures.....

    It was not even close. Spent at least 45 minutes researching, even my futures and options books. Amazing this type of type is not easily avail. My gut on how things move is way better...however, don't want to play by gut.
  • $VIX use any of the front month strikes ( NOV)--they are all working OTM,ATM,ITM--next time ask me---They ( NOV) started working last week. I'll let you know when the DEC start working--there's a week of time, when none of the strikes work--
  • Use TOS and the theoretical pricing model. $VIX price also = approximately front month SPY IV.

    Skål!
  • Sorry I had 2 questions...first one on how you calc your option price changes based on VIX changes.

    Answered.

    2nd is why does and TOS and a manual calc of how option value should change in relation to underlying price changes....differ so greatly in reality....just today for instance.

    Maybe option values where way ramped in anticipation of Fed Speak....and they sagged off after Fed Speak nothingness...
  • I used the TOS analysis tool also...it matched closely with my linear delta model...and of course gamma shows how delta changes over small ranges...but even with 2 coinciding methods.....way way off. As it was I was hedging shorts....so my hedge was less effective, and so far thats fine...since prices generally down. Issue at hand....how to really calculate a hedge using futures, to various basket of options.
  • spudthorpe
    Ooo, no, that won't work. You're using delta as if it were a constant, but delta changes dramatically depending on intrinsic value, time to expiry, etc. Use a Black-Scholes calculator (for example http://www.blobek.com/black-scholes.html) to price the various scenarios you're considering.
  • I checked that calculator and that is European style options, which I would be loath to use to model American style options.
  • Most puts I have are Mar, June 2010. Theta burn is negligible.

    I realize Delta is not constant however, the variance in calculating one day price movements using delta alone were like 600% off. Dummies guide to Greeks....what I am looking for.
  • Guest
    Terry Laundry tonight --
    "Nov 4th Comment: No real Bottom yet. No change to forecast: Volume Oscillator trying to make a positive rising bottoms for a rally but it looks weak to me. Think it will break down to the green envelope (about 950 ?) after this sideways move ends in a few days. Potential small Bear T . . . suggests the market's wanting to rally here is only a 2 or 3 day affair."
    http://www.ttheoryfoundation.org/t-theory-calculations.html
  • RussianBear
    Thanks for your nice posts, Berk and Mole !
    Please, continue, it is truly appreciated. Cheers :)
  • AudioTactics
    Aphex Twin FTW!
  • momac
    Goodness sakes, I learn something new everyday. Off to hunt for cheap puts. :-)
  • Praffert
    Hey guys, heres my count if anyone wants to talk about an alt. count: http://tewp.blogspot.com/
  • Yes, and I completely agree. The ONLY thing that draws me away from this count (which was my primary count this AM on $NDX) is the whole time proportion. It would really fit much better if we got another 1.5-2.5 days of rally (after this little sell off). Since time is fickle however, I will not hold out on it for long.

    Thanks for posting. Nice count. +1

    Skål!
  • crush1618
    Just a thought - If one were to count Friday close as (i) followed by an irregular abc leading to (ii) (post fomc), then it would account for 3.5 days in (ii). A small pop tomorrow could help with 1-2 of (iii).
  • Scoops
    Some shorts I'm looking at for tomorrow. Low risk high reward. Entry one tick below today's low. Stop a tick above today's highs. Remember it's all about risk management and position sizing.

    CTSH, ESRX, MYL, TSL
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