Triangle trouble…

It appears that after breaking upwards and retesting ($INDU) the “Point of Recognition,” the markets will be looking at least modestly higher.  The $NDX jumped above its “POR” and hasn’t looked back.  Unfortunately we have not completely broken out of our resistance zone, and judging the confluence overhead, now would probably not be the best time to be creating new long positions, rather waiting for a big break above 1250.  From there, we can assess the wave structure, but unless a specific group jumps out at the lead, we will likely be heading lower in either wave D of a triangle, or wave 3 or and ending diagonal.  The ending diagonal potential, while secondary right now, cannot be taken off the table until we measure out the following decline.  Once this triangle traces out, we will be looking for about a 2500 point move lower, somewhere towards 6500 ($INDU) at rough guess.

Resistance levels are overhead, and we remain divergently over-bought, but it appears that to satisfy ANY corrective pattern, we would be about 1300 in $NDX.  We will likely get a push lower, to the upper boundary of the gap, or perhaps to fill it, and pushing down would be a good time to start looking upwards for nearly 125 points ($NDX) at this point.

We have been watching the financials as well through this, and they remain well below the Nov. peak about 16.50 (XLF).  XHB however appears to be tracing out the finishing touches on a nice bearish wedge, that will likely be the c wave of C (i.e. last part or 3 movement of 5 (next being down, then up again)) of a triangle.  Since these are supposed to be two leading sectors, we will keep an eye on their movement over the coming days.

The $VIX is tracing out a nice triangle, that once breaks, SHOULD (please!!) hit triple digits.  It is kinda tough to measure $VIX targets, especially with triangles, but I am going to use both total distance, and daily closes.  If we push to the lower side of the triangle, we should be looking at 55-50.  However, should we fall short of the lower boundary on the final push lower, we could be looking at 110 (60 (roughly) + 51 (triangle total) = 111).  There are other ways to measure the triangle of course, but 100-110 would be a good target.


All in all, we are looking modestly upwards, seeking to satisfy yesterday’s levels around 9100-9300 in $INDU, and up to 1300 in $NDX.  From there, we should get a couple hundred point down move ($INDU), before the final up/down/up {A-B-C} of the triangle.  Should this point coincide with the $VIX at the bottom of its triangle, we will have the best short entry for the next 3-6 months.

Skål!

This entry was posted on Monday, December 8th, 2008 at 9:23 pm and is filed under Market Outlook. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

  • Michael Ricelli
    drys. all out at 9.80 with a limit I had to put in as I was called away. Nice trade. but now I look for the reload which I suck at.
  • toptick
    A suggestion for Zero: can you make the indicator display as histogram bars? Then it would be much easier to distinguish when a VTA is signalled.

    Folks: great work. Thanks.
  • .
  • Still holding my SSO based on the Zero 60 min charts. Seems to be a reasonable trade at this point. If this works out well over the next few weeks I'll have to switch this up and get out the juice trading futures. A few 200-300 lots of SSO doesn't do a whole heck of a lot in terms of profits.. A few /ES contracts on the other hand....
  • Dragonsbane
    I have a question about the VIX chart. My chart of the VIX looks significantly different from that. In fact, if I try to draw a triangle, it's already broken to the downside. Can't post it, but can send it to you if you want. Curious where that chart is from...
  • CLEAN THEM CUPS!
  • geckoman
    Erik showed the XLF earlier, here is the $BKX which details nicely what that index is up against.

    http://www.screencast.com/users/geckoman/folders/Jing/media/4f33f1c7-638d-4eb4-b490-f976b388a5c4
  • Very nice - I'm all giddy - can't wait to short the heck out of all this...
  • jch
  • BigHouse(Aka Mr Vix)
    Joe kernen is such an ass clown.
  • Thanks! I missed it although I looked out for it - I guess it was during the night.
  • Michael Ricelli
    Sold half my Drys calls at 8.60 for a very nice gain. Whimpy, no?
  • DJ
    Thanks for your efforts in analyzing and sharing this information.
  • peterey
    Some comments on the volume at price formation on ES this morning:

    http://www.screencast.com/t/ccuiwJTJaTa
  • Tazman
    Eric....great charts from a smaller time frame. Hard to argue the channel effect. If we start out slightly positive today going to DUG with tight stops. I am a little evil in my deep self so first post but follow daily.

  • Waiting for the next leg down ! Probably in a month or two !!
    Especially waiting for the next leg down in China !!! Shorting FXI around $33-$34 when it gets there !
    http://etfstocks.typepad.com/markets/



  • $31.5 looks to me to be a great entry to short FXI. http://screencast.com/t/XCHmGnrAGc
  • Erikd
    look at my charts I have posted here first, then decide for yourself
  • I still can't get used to the fact you are actually posting charts. Boggles the mind...
  • Erikd
    MERRY XMAS
  • Michae Ricelli
    BTW, holding a boatload of DRYS 7.50 calls. Just think this is going to explode. Stupidly of course.
  • If they're long term, you're probably good. I'm thinking it will drop again, somewhere in the $4-$5 range, but who knows. I have a few puts, but if it hits $5 I'm going long.
  • Michae Ricelli
    Yea, that's more like it. I am seeing the ballsack check has worked....or are you two secretly listening to the Rolling Stones and will not admit it. Come on now, fess up. I much more like the Beserker in you.
  • standard_and_poor
    alley rat attempting titanium coating:

    Humbly believe NDX will attain level of 1389 (top of subwave 4 (Nov. 4 , 2008) of larger degree wave 3; forgive non-elliot nomenclature) as it is a 38.2% retracement of wave 5 in my count anyway. I would give it 5 to 15 market days.
  • I mostly agree - but you have to clean up your count. Look out for my forecast tonight...
  • Frankfurt overnight is a mixed picture--
    It's going to be Financials vs retail-- JPM is up 4%, that's ahead of Tuesday's same store sales--
    I imagine quite a few retail stocks will be falling off a cliff, pre-market.
    The big ones are KSS , WMT, TGT --If all 3 are down 2 to 3% pre-market , it's going to be a rough day for the bulls---
    It'll probably be 2 of 3 down, ( that's a neutral) if so, watch for any other pre-market moving news.
    Right now Dow futures down 50
  • Erikd
    will the XLK and the XLF get the follow thru tomorrow? stay tuned this could get very interesting!
    I'm still working and everyone is gone. following suit, Goodnight.
  • standard_and_poor
    Humbly expect retracement to 1167 to 1151 on NDX then a rally to 1389 within a minimum of 5 - 15 days all based on Elliot, most likely rally will be fast, then look out below. Will post more details if needed.
  • Erikd
    Molecools at the strip club and I'm posting charts, something is wrong with this! :)
  • Remember that place went down in flames....

    sob.. :-(
  • ScubaSteve
    Mole, or anyone else:

    "Current one-hour snapshot of the live SPX zero indicator (NYSE trading hours). This page will automatically reload once every five minutes"

    "Then download the ReloadEvery plugin and follow the installation instructions - it’s pretty easy. Once you restarted your browser click on the first image on this page, which is the live screen grab that gets uploaded to our server once every minute."

    Am I missing something here? It seems like these two are contradicting.... is it 1 min or 5 min?
  • I'm uploading the image more often than the page auto-reloads.
  • Erikd
    Road map to follow tomorrow, SHOW ME THE CONFIRMATION : XLF take a look:
    http://screencast.com/t/LAungC0IkS
  • Hey Erik......I appreciate your comments, and am glad you have charts now. I just have one suggestion. I notice you cut off the prices. I keep having to look at my charts to correspond the chart with the prices. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
  • Erikd
  • Very nice. Thanks.
  • Pretty charts, thank you.
  • Insect Overlord
    Despite my UPS stop mistake, I really feel in my groove. I'm still looking at pretty good profits on my other bullish trades: BA and DRYS. Plus I have a put on SHLD should we head down tomorrow...and as I've said before, if SHLD breaks $45.38, look out below.
    I am now pumping myself up to assrape the market. Just as long as mole doesn't take away the ZI (if you do, mole, I'll kick your ass!!)!!
    And now, for your listening enjoyment (particularly for you, berk), I present some asskicking metal...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhptP8j-t-M
  • Insect Overlord
    Thought I'd pass on a lesson I learned the very hard and aggravating way today regarding stops on my UPS position I opened on the 4th...hopefully this will keep anyone from making a similar mistake. I WAS SO CLOSE!! Story of my life lately.

    http://screencast.com/t/vcDx4SdP
  • Ouch.....yes, that is tough. In a volatile market like we are in, you can't set stops tight. Need to give them an extra 2-3%.
  • BigSteve
    I feel your pain Ukla, but hindsight is always perfect. Were you monitoring and adjusting your stops or did you just set it when you entered the position?

    Any other day you might have set your stops twenty cents higher and still got stopped out. It always sucks to be that close though. I can think of a dozen times when I missed hitting a profit target by a few cents and ended up leaving lots of coin laying around.
  • JohnyWalker
    Mole, here is how me and a budddy see things, we think that A began at the low and b at 818 ( spx wise ) this being a minor 4 playing out. We got together and scrubbed the ABC beginning higher which implied 3 down was done with.
    http://stopsarein.com/2008/12/09/possible-elliot-wave-count/
  • gagelle
    I think the dollar is headed down because the way the Fed is printing money and all the stimulus plans in the works will devalue the currency. Any opinions?
  • The strong dollar killed MCD overseas, it's a falling knife now--
    FDX got whalloped in AH--by $6 bucks, They pre-announced they'll miss earnings, that'll kill transpo stocks tomorrow---imo.
  • gagelle
    Thanks zstock. Your analysis really helps.me understand the whole picture.
  • cnbs08
    This will be one of the few times that I ever bring this up over here but I'm sorry I just have to say this...........my apologies mole and berk!

    Do any of you ever get the feeling that some of the posters over on the slope are the same group of people using different usernames to create a false dialogue in order to promote some specific agendas/sentiment? For what purpose, I think the answer is obvious. I know it sounds crazy but some of the posts just scream bizarre to me......like the one I just read from mSquare asking for more such posts that list supposed option contracts with fill prices/stops-of course with the link. To me it sounds like someone is so desperate and in need of positive feedback that they need to pat themselves on the back constantly. I dont' know but it just always seems to rub me in a strange kind of way......thus some of my off topic posts over there, but you guys can be the judge for yourselves. I just think it's worth mentioning as the kind of posts over there seem rather unusual to me at times. Sorry if I offended anyone here. Anyway, I'll leave it at that......
  • DJ_DJ
    Give This Sucker's Rally A Reality Check

    After a short term relentless rally, here comes a reality check for the market:
    Dow up to 9026 from 7392, + 22% gain in 2 weeks
    SPX up to 918.57 from 741, + 24% gain in 2 weeks
    XLF up to 13.82 from 8.67, + 59.4% gain in 2 weeks
    XHB up to 13.69 from 8.21, + 66.8% gain in 2 weeks
    XLY up to 22.22 from 16.12, + 37.8% gain in 2 weeks

    -----------------------------------------

    Dow broke out the bear trend line last Friday and penetrated BB top line at 9015 today.
    Will today's high at 9026 mark a temporary top to this sucker's rally? I doubt it.
    Will EMA60 @ 9250 be a major resistance for a +600 pts pull back (> -7%) ? I think so.

    -----------------------------------------

    Before XLF reaches 14.7, buy dip every time Dow drops ~ 600 pts.
    XLF second wave up target = 16.5 as its major resistance = 11/4 day's high = 50% Fibon Ret

    -----------------------------------------

    The current rally was started with C's reversal on 11/21, so will it be ended the same way down the slope
    Now C to 8.8 (50% Fibon) is a close target around the corner, it'll meet a wall of resistance up and down there
    XLF/XHB served as twin engine to propel the broad market and both are running out of steams very soon...

    -----------------------------------------

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Dow +25% = EMA60 = 9240 ~ 9300, it would be a perfect short entry range for ST...

  • gagelle
    This is not meant to denigrate your excellent analysis, but I don't trust that the Fed will not interfere as they have been doing for months. Whether they can keep the market propped up has yet to be seen. But they were unable to do so in the 1930s. Market forces were stronger than their printing press.
  • GEO
    I agree with both of you - so Dow is headed to 8100.
  • Bartholomy
    The dollar seems to top. There's a resistance around 90.
    Top of the BB montly, STO have start crossing.

    A start getting short from 900 while SP goes up.
    Small position huge stop. More it goes, more I get loaded.
    The rally can go up to 1070 easily.

    Obama plan to rescue economy have bring hope.
    Big spending in infrastructure to keep job running. Get long in infrastrucutre stocks.
    Road, bridge builder, etc... I have red than 1500 B will be spend in next years.

    Maybe the down wave will be created with few automaker bankruptcy. We need it.
    As you know, we are in context of surproduction in cars. Price fall, profit fall, etc...
    Wise people will no more change car every year, and they will keep it longer.
    I beleive, the industry need uncompetitive big dinosaure to die.
    This is the primary main rules of capitalism.
    This can be consistent with vix fear of 100 digits, since everyone knows GM but not lehman, plus this is a icon of america.

    US real estate is half way down, and the bottom can be expected around 2011.
    From the peak we should loose 40%, 20% so far, this is serious industry forcast.
    Since real-estate is bought with leverage, aka, morgage, the rela effective lost is twice as big.
  • JWBlack
    A question on the technical analysis of the VIX -- does any of it hold any water?

    I t isn't liquid.

  • Erikd
    Just when most think that santa is coming this year, The market makers will be the Grinch this Year! take a look what I see that played out today:
    S/P chart http://screencast.com/t/yl5cODdXmYZ
    XLF chart: http://screencast.com/t/DfN0I3Es6
    $VIX chart http://screencast.com/t/t8ZO4REYP1
    XMAS this year will be made following the trend to the downside that is still intact!! don't let them get You this Year. Just my view.
  • barebull
    nice charts erikd .............thanks
  • Insect Overlord
    Erikd...what are those strange "http" things within the context of your comment? Holy shit...they're links! To charts!! :-) LOL -- just bustin your balls bro...those are some great observations!
  • Erikd
    I have been posting charts since last week, glad you are slowly getting up to speed :)
  • Insect Overlord
    LOL! I have been out of it a little.
  • moneyfarm
    Umm....You forgot to post a chart of ticker XMAS?! JK. I've been following your posts for while and have learned a lot. Even more so now that you are posting charts. Thanks
  • Erikd
    Thank Molecool for the charts it is my XMAS present to him since he could'nt wait.
  • TraderTamas
    WOW Fabulous work!


  • Erikd
    look at this chart it might be easier to read if you liked the other one
    http://screencast.com/t/9jDYBnS7UUn
  • itsallgood
    Erik - make it simple for me please - what is the actual number that is at the top of the trendline in the chart above? - its too hard to see
  • Erikd
    draw a parellel channel from the low of 10/10/08 - 837 to the low on 11/21/08 - 739 and extend top line of paralell and connect to high on 11/05/08 - 1008 and extend in both directions. dial it now to a 60day 2min chart and tell me if this channel makes sense. let me know if you need more clarification :)
  • itsallgood
    heheh - I stopped being lazy and did after I posted...nice. Thanks!
  • TraderTamas
    It is... thanks!

    Your charts are the most convincing charts I've seen recently. I can't wait to see how this works out.
  • Erikd
    I think YOU set off a TSUNAMI tonight! You were the messenger! stop feeding the whales, or you unbeached one i should say! :)
  • Erikd
    The final clue to this puzzle will be to watch the price action of the XLF tomorrow and key levels with it. tomorrow should confirm continued downtrend and give the last few possible pieces we need.
  • Erikd
    your comment tells me that you are very close to reading the charts properly. zero this down to hourly charts and it will give you the real clues you might have been stepping over. Good Luck
  • TraderTamas
    Thanks... are you just a trend line / channel guy or do you have other indicators you watch also? I think that too many tools can confuse a technician.
  • Erikd
    very much weighted towards trendlines,and watching 5 indicators to maintain that the trend is still intact.. use 60 day charts and hourly to 2 min time frames to zero in. reading charts is very simple once you tune out the noise and focus on just reading the charts. Price,volume, support, resistance and TRENDLINES is all that is needed. I do not care what the news is, other then listening to it as it is like listening to someone talk at a party.(in regards to trading) just my view
  • TraderTamas
    Yes. I learned very quickly that news has no effect on where the market goes. Unless, of course, something like 9/11 happens.

    Thanks for your advise.
  • Lawrence_Chiu
    S/P chart: I drew the trendline starting with September 22 high and it paints a bullish picture. Gap up above the line.

    http://bayimg.com/lAMKAaabF

    It's interesting that both bullish and bearish case can be made here.
  • Erikd
    S/P is still in downtrend channel if you draw it from when the big plunge started in the first week of October. Marketmakers love to trick out the average trader. until channel is violated from when that plunge started nothing but further downside will happen. this chart maybe easier to see channel. take a look http://screencast.com/t/aq6CbWyFwu7
  • gagelle
    Your Channel is similar to the one that Tim K. drew. I drew one like Lawrence's and now I understand why it is different than Tim's. My lesson is that you have to be objective and stay away from what you might want to see.
  • Erikd
    did you think I was that bad without charts? :)
  • KSS and T are really trying to get to their 200 day. There both about 4% under right now. I think they will get there, so It takes at least one more up day, this week, for that to happen.
  • Erikd
    sounds about right.
  • TraderTamas
    Wouldn't another up day break out of your channels though?
  • Erikd
    do you really think that this channel is going to be broken? we have been in the first major plunge the last 2 1/2 months that we havent seen in decades. It has to be a capitulation before this channel will be broken to the upside. tune out the noise and follow what the charts are telling you.
  • Thanks Eric for the vote of confidence and clearing that up. I've been staring at those two charts and I really do have tunnel vision now.
    Great chart on the VIX---If some people here don't get the VIX by now---I'll wonder about them.
    I posted one, ZigZag posted one, now your's, They all pointed the same direction---moon landing.
  • Erikd
    I hope you can sleep better now and get some rest.
  • Erikd
    In regards to moon landing, what are the details of the Bradley report and I think DEC. 14th? maybe there is a crystal ball:) J/K. would love to hear the partyline to it. does someone know what it sez?
  • g_man
    I see something similar, but we need to break the 885 resistance area to be confirmed.

    http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spxdec82008cy7.jpg
  • LOL - I was about to write the update!!! Didn't know it was your turn again - LOL

    Excellent, because I'm completely beat tonight. You are the MAN.
  • Sitting_Duck
    responding to any old comment hoping this finds your inbox.

    go back to the chart you drew on Nov 30th. I saved a copy on my desktop. The market is following this "House of Whipsaw" pretty closely. It's been a good guide for me the last week or so, and using it in conjunction with 2sweets retrace levels, i'd say we're in for some downside here shortly, so to speak.

    cheers, and go money!!!
  • cnbs08
    Nice charts as usual guys....keep it up. I'll try not to offend anyone here although, I'm sure some of the TK clones will have their fair share of things to say. I think it's funny that they feel the need to point me down for any comment I make, even when it's right on.

    Anyway, is anyone watching the homebuilders/real estate and retail sectors as possible leading indicators for when the rally fizzles. IYR and URE are trying to suggest that they're ultimately on their way to their 161% extension with today's close. XRT and RTH are lagging a little relatively speaking but further strength would put them on their way as well. Everything looks to me to be setting up nicely for a pullback this week sometime which will be followed by the third leg up for this rally......then we know what happens next.
  • BigHouse(Aka Mr Vix)
    I look forward to getting back into Mr Vix.
  • Erikd
  • BigHouse(Aka Mr Vix)
    Thanks for the chart. This is going to be tricky interms of when the right time to get into Mr Vix. I am thinking of Feb options. Calls on the 90 95 and 100 lines. If we pop on the dow in the 9200-9500 zone per berk's chart i will start looking at the calls. I will start buying at .05 and .10 if they appear in those lines.I feel whatever pattern is going on with Mr Vix its telling you there will be a big surge past 100. Timing is key. Thats why i will choose Feb line. Just in case the pigs play their games.
  • JAN 70 VIX calls are working--If I can get those for 1.20 that's triple dom--I have a chance to sell for 3.60---
  • Berk, I like your set up. Are you using the Zero? I take it you are sticking with options and not trading the ES?
  • Yes, I am using the older version (Mole has yet to fill me in on the newest updates) :-(

    And yes, I am still using options. So far, the zero has been pretty spot on, but I need to run through at least a 20day test of my own, in real-time before I would feel comfortable trading futures on it.

    Skål!
  • luckylee
    I see that in VIX too :) Measured move > 120 - 130 after the infamous Santa Claus rally. I'd love to see the CNBC bottom callers keep buying the bottom calls ... This should be fun.
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